Comments for Learning Games http://learninggames.wordpress.com Games with learning... or is that learning with games? Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:53:24 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on OER in Games, Sims and Virtual Worlds by Daniel Livingstone http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/oer-in-games-sims-and-virtual-worlds/#comment-3423 Daniel Livingstone Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:53:24 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=702#comment-3423 Hi John, Thanks for the comment. I have to confess that I haven't really considered publishing other people's essays and points of view - but if you're looking for a space to publish your essays and help you gather your thoughts, I recommend getting your own blog. Then you can publish as often and as much or as little as you like. Let me know when you do and I can post a link here. Hi John,

Thanks for the comment. I have to confess that I haven’t really considered publishing other people’s essays and points of view – but if you’re looking for a space to publish your essays and help you gather your thoughts, I recommend getting your own blog. Then you can publish as often and as much or as little as you like. Let me know when you do and I can post a link here.

]]> Comment on OER in Games, Sims and Virtual Worlds by Mayor (john) http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/oer-in-games-sims-and-virtual-worlds/#comment-3422 Mayor (john) Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:25:19 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=702#comment-3422 I think this is insightful. Few academics seem to have any grip on the economic realities so I applaud your insight. Here's my background. I was in the commercial video game development business for awhile (I went platinum as the producer of a PlayStation game when I was living in London) and am now providing online education. I'm interested in this topic since I'm struggling to use my insights about games for kids education. I've been looking for some forums to publish short essays on this topic to help me gather my thoughts and input. Your blog seems appropriate. Would you consider one? I think this is insightful. Few academics seem to have any grip on the economic realities so I applaud your insight.

Here’s my background. I was in the commercial video game development business for awhile (I went platinum as the producer of a PlayStation game when I was living in London) and am now providing online education. I’m interested in this topic since I’m struggling to use my insights about games for kids education.

I’ve been looking for some forums to publish short essays on this topic to help me gather my thoughts and input. Your blog seems appropriate. Would you consider one?

]]> Comment on Answering demand for instruction and guidance… in real-time by igralo http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/answering-demand-for-instruction-and-guidance-in-real-time/#comment-3417 igralo Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:34:19 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=699#comment-3417 Such industrialized "Demand" based approach works successfully today due to the way search engines and youtube work. Since computer analysis for text content is poor and for video virtually nonexistent these engines work with metadata like tags and keywords. I don't believe however this approach will work in the long term. Imagine that they(Demand Media) would have to pay the CDN fees involved. Or consider the fact that advertising works well on current "demand" but is weaker for older materials. Such industrialized “Demand” based approach works successfully today due to the way search engines and youtube work. Since computer analysis for text content is poor and for video virtually nonexistent these engines work with metadata like tags and keywords.

I don’t believe however this approach will work in the long term. Imagine that they(Demand Media) would have to pay the CDN fees involved. Or consider the fact that advertising works well on current “demand” but is weaker for older materials.

]]> Comment on CCK09 begins by first reflections on connectiv(e-i)st vs connectionist | On making connections .... http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/cck09-begins/#comment-3407 first reflections on connectiv(e-i)st vs connectionist | On making connections .... Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:04:15 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=676#comment-3407 [...] Science at the University of the West of Scotland on his blog “Learning Games” (http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/cck09-begins/) He also saw in the name of the theory we are looking at – connectivism – and recalled [...] [...] Science at the University of the West of Scotland on his blog “Learning Games” (http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/cck09-begins/) He also saw in the name of the theory we are looking at – connectivism – and recalled [...]

]]> Comment on What is Connectivism trying to be? by Bibiana http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/what-is-connectivism-trying-to-be/#comment-3403 Bibiana Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:02:24 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=686#comment-3403 hello Daniel, Thanks for verbalizing so clearly some of my own concerns about Connectivism. I do think scope might be one of the problems and, definitely for me, I feel uncomfortable with the idea that learners volition -me in this course- has nothing to do with what is happening. Good post and good reflections! hello Daniel,
Thanks for verbalizing so clearly some of my own concerns about Connectivism. I do think scope might be one of the problems and, definitely for me, I feel uncomfortable with the idea that learners volition -me in this course- has nothing to do with what is happening.
Good post and good reflections!

]]> Comment on CCK09 begins by Back to school | On making connections .... http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/cck09-begins/#comment-3401 Back to school | On making connections .... Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:40:34 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=676#comment-3401 [...] CCK09 begins « Learning Games [...] [...] CCK09 begins « Learning Games [...]

]]> Comment on What is Connectivism trying to be? by Bill Kerr http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/what-is-connectivism-trying-to-be/#comment-3400 Bill Kerr Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:36 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=686#comment-3400 You might like this snippet from Marvin Minsky which for me puts it into perspective in a way that has both humour and insight: "Mathematician: It is always best to express things with logic Connectionist: No, logic is far too inflexible to represent commonsense knowledge. Instead, you ought to use Connectionist Networks Linguist: No, because Connectionist Nets are even more rigid. They represent things in numerical ways that are hard to convert to useful abstractions. Instead, why not simply use everyday language - with its unrivaled expressiveness Conceptualist: No, language is much too ambiguous. You should use Semantic Networks instead - in which ideas get connected by definite concepts! Statistician: Those linkages are too definite and don't express the uncertainties we face, so you need to use probabilities Mathematician: All such informal schemes are so unconstrained that they can be self contradictory. Only logic can ensure us against those circular inconsistencies" - The Emotion Machine, pp. 295-6 Minsky concludes that "it makes no sense to seek a single best way to represent knowledge" You might like this snippet from Marvin Minsky which for me puts it into perspective in a way that has both humour and insight:
“Mathematician: It is always best to express things with logic
Connectionist: No, logic is far too inflexible to represent commonsense knowledge. Instead, you ought to use Connectionist Networks
Linguist: No, because Connectionist Nets are even more rigid. They represent things in numerical ways that are hard to convert to useful abstractions. Instead, why not simply use everyday language – with its unrivaled expressiveness
Conceptualist: No, language is much too ambiguous. You should use Semantic Networks instead – in which ideas get connected by definite concepts!
Statistician: Those linkages are too definite and don’t express the uncertainties we face, so you need to use probabilities
Mathematician: All such informal schemes are so unconstrained that they can be self contradictory. Only logic can ensure us against those circular inconsistencies”
- The Emotion Machine, pp. 295-6

Minsky concludes that “it makes no sense to seek a single best way to represent knowledge”

]]> Comment on CCK09 begins by Daniel Livingstone http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/cck09-begins/#comment-3399 Daniel Livingstone Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:07:02 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=676#comment-3399 Thanks Bill, As I've noted several times, Ive not managed to cover the full and complete reading list given in week one - but I did note that your paper was referenced... so George and Stephen certainly seem to be taking critique on board. To what degree they have successfully addressed the critique I am not sure - I'll have a lot more reading to do :-) Thanks Bill,

As I’ve noted several times, Ive not managed to cover the full and complete reading list given in week one – but I did note that your paper was referenced… so George and Stephen certainly seem to be taking critique on board. To what degree they have successfully addressed the critique I am not sure – I’ll have a lot more reading to do :-)

]]> Comment on CCK09 begins by Bill Kerr http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/cck09-begins/#comment-3395 Bill Kerr Thu, 24 Sep 2009 03:37:27 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=676#comment-3395 Link to the paper I presented to a conference that George Siemens organised in 2007: <a href='http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/kerr' rel="nofollow">challenge to connectivism </a> "I'd like to look at the notion of radical discontinuity, that there is radical discontinuity happening in some domains but possible not in others: - new tools, web apps YES - new learning environments – augmented conversation, communication and collaboration YES - new curriculum NOT YET? - New epistemology – I can't see it - new political awareness – I think that's needed, that a lot of the blockage is at that level" I also summarised parts of Andy Clark's book "Being There" at that time as evidence that there were other existing theories of distributed cognition around and so we didn't need a new one: <a href='http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/enactivism' rel="nofollow">enactivism </a> (scroll down for book summary notes) Link to the paper I presented to a conference that George Siemens organised in 2007: challenge to connectivism

“I’d like to look at the notion of radical discontinuity, that there is radical discontinuity happening in some domains but possible not in others:
- new tools, web apps YES
- new learning environments – augmented conversation, communication and collaboration YES
- new curriculum NOT YET?
- New epistemology – I can’t see it
- new political awareness – I think that’s needed, that a lot of the blockage is at that level”

I also summarised parts of Andy Clark’s book “Being There” at that time as evidence that there were other existing theories of distributed cognition around and so we didn’t need a new one: enactivism (scroll down for book summary notes)

]]> Comment on What is Connectivism trying to be? by Daniel Livingstone http://learninggames.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/what-is-connectivism-trying-to-be/#comment-3394 Daniel Livingstone Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:38:32 +0000 http://learninggames.wordpress.com/?p=686#comment-3394 Thanks Stephen for the response. Good luck getting your site back up - I had a site hacked a few months ago, luckily I was able to pass the recovery work to someone else... I will extend this in a future post I think - for a whole range of disciplines and areas emergent phenomenon exist at multiple layers or levels, while productive theories tend to concentrate on only a single (or perhaps two closely related) levels of phenomena. Medicine as applied/emergent biology, biology as emergent chemistry, chemistry as emergent physics... that kind of idea. Alternatively, socio-linguistics (and historical linguistics) as emergent systems arising from networks of individual speakers (psycho-linguistics) who learn language during their life - constrained by evolved neural mechanisms (evolutionary and cognitive neuro-science). It is possible to derive theories at one level with a large degree of independence to theories at lower/higher levels. And while we can see that socio-linguistics is clearly emergent, without reference to specific phenomena that only exist at the social level the ability to understand and explain language change in society becomes quite constrained. As a heads up, when I get the chance I'll even propose three forms of Connectivism: exo-Connectivism: Connectivism theories principly concerned with the 'out there'; Inter-networking people and technology endo-Connectivism: Connectivism theories principly concerned with theories of networks relating to concept formation and the internal processes of learning and of course: holo-Connectivism: Connectivism theories that attempt to combine exo- and endo- forms into a unified theory of learning. Why bother with this? Because I have a feeling that for many people exo-connectivism may be a useful way to consider learners and learning in todays networked world - even where the endo-connectivist ideas have failed to convince. Thanks Stephen for the response. Good luck getting your site back up – I had a site hacked a few months ago, luckily I was able to pass the recovery work to someone else…

I will extend this in a future post I think – for a whole range of disciplines and areas emergent phenomenon exist at multiple layers or levels, while productive theories tend to concentrate on only a single (or perhaps two closely related) levels of phenomena. Medicine as applied/emergent biology, biology as emergent chemistry, chemistry as emergent physics… that kind of idea.

Alternatively, socio-linguistics (and historical linguistics) as emergent systems arising from networks of individual speakers (psycho-linguistics) who learn language during their life – constrained by evolved neural mechanisms (evolutionary and cognitive neuro-science).

It is possible to derive theories at one level with a large degree of independence to theories at lower/higher levels. And while we can see that socio-linguistics is clearly emergent, without reference to specific phenomena that only exist at the social level the ability to understand and explain language change in society becomes quite constrained.

As a heads up, when I get the chance I’ll even propose three forms of Connectivism:
exo-Connectivism: Connectivism theories principly concerned with the ‘out there’; Inter-networking people and technology
endo-Connectivism: Connectivism theories principly concerned with theories of networks relating to concept formation and the internal processes of learning

and of course:
holo-Connectivism: Connectivism theories that attempt to combine exo- and endo- forms into a unified theory of learning.

Why bother with this?
Because I have a feeling that for many people exo-connectivism may be a useful way to consider learners and learning in todays networked world – even where the endo-connectivist ideas have failed to convince.

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